National Security vs. Civil Liberties: What Are the Limits to Executive Power?
Panelists:
Willie Brown, Jr., Former Mayor of San Francisco
Susan Estrich, Robert Kingsley Professor of Law and Political Science, University of Southern California Law School
Dennis Prager, Syndicated Radio Talk-Show Host
Edward Rollins, Chairman, Rollins Strategy Group

Moderator:
Jeff Greenfield, Senior Analyst, CNN

This was perhaps the liveliest discussion we have seen this conference. The panel is more combative than any I have seen yet which makes for many zinger and applause lines. If you watch only one video on the website, I'd recommend this one. It's great entertainment as well as provocative food for thought to watch the volleys between two sets of well-matched combatants moderated by CNN analyst Jeff Greenfield.  On the left we have Willie Brown (who Jeff Greenfield mistakenly introduces as the former mayor of Oakland) and Susan Estrich, a law professor at USC. On the right we have feisty Dennis Prager, a conservative talk show host and Edward Rollins, who advises Republicans.  Has the U.S. Government gone too far or is it not going far enough? Is President Bush abusing his power or only doing what is necessary in a time of war to protect this nation? These were the basic questions asked during this spirited panel on the nature of executive power. This conversation moved very rapidly and so these are only rough notes of what actually transpired.

The first issue on the table is whether or not we are prosecuting terrorists effectively. Susan Estrich comes out swinging. "Here's what concerns me, how many Arabs do we have in this room? Unless you are an Arab you probably haven't had any big concerns." She goes on to say that there are offices to prosecute terrorists but since it is hard to find terrorists to prosecute you go after someone else. She recently was called in on a case, furniture store owner in Boston who 15 years ago who published a newsletter in favor of the Jihad. Are we in such a rush to find terrorists that we are prosecuting those who are innocent? She's pretty emphatic about the government's low rate of success in prosecuting terrorists.And now a volley from the other side. Dennis Prager says that "When I think of all the things I'm supposed to be scared of besides Islamic terrorism I do think there is a case of hysteria." He proclaims, "I am prepared to die. I would be proud of my boys if they joined the army to fight Islamic terrorism. I'm not prepared to die so that someone doesn't have to have their computer monitored." He thinks that the treatment of Muslims in this country is remarkably good considering the fact that we are at war. He is also upset that there were no Muslim protestations of Islamic terrorism.

The next hot topic is racial profiling. Greenfield asks is profiling makes logical sense considering that terrorists are predominately young Muslim men. Willie Brown talks about his experience of going through the airport and getting stopped on the way here. He says that "I don't look like anything, other than a rapper." He forgot he had his cell phone on and got pinged twice so he got searched. Greenfield asks if Brown thinks it is to profile people based on what country they are from and what do they look like. Willie Brown thinks this is important. "I do not want anyone from South Dakota on my jury."  This is just one of many Willie Brown's quotable bits.

Finally Greenfield turns to Ed Rollins asking him if he would rather be fighting on behalf of a candidate who defends the President's actions or one who was against them. Before answers this he says to Willie Brown that he is glad that Willie "had to go through what this fat old man goes through." He then veers into uncomfortable territory saying that he is "sure it was some sister on that double ping" and that this was her chance to get Willie stripped down. He finally answers the question saying that we are in a unique set of circumstances. No one on this panel would support torture but things are different now than before  9/11.

Greenfield next asks Estrich if Sept 11 demonstrated that some limits on government are disastrous?
She says that she "I cannot imagine a magistrate or a judge anywhere in America who would have denied a request for a warrant in this situation (referring to the denied request to search Zacarias Moussaoui's computer in August 2001).  She takes a swipe at President Bush saying that   "I could come up with briefing memos not read in Texas too but I won't because I am too polite."  She believes that there is no reason to take from that wakeup call that we can no longer trust judges to respond with warrants.

Willie Brown also says that law enforcement had all the tools they needed in this situation.  He also says that in San Francisco the policemen do not worry about bothering someone's privacy. "Every cop I know thinks like Jack Bauer in 24"

Dennis Prager sneers that liberals pass laws and are stunned by the fact that people act on them. He does not believe for the most part that the Patriot Act has affected Americans. Prager cites a bunch of statistics that say that the Patriot Act hasn't really had an effect on the majority of American. "I am more worried about being blown up about a terrorist than having my privacy violated."

Ed Rollins then points out that we have the weakest president since Nixon before he was about to be impeached and that the country is also hampered by an ineffective Congress. He feels FBI and CIA deserve credit for plugging a lot of holes.  In regards to 9/11 he says  tersely, "We were sloppy"  but we aren't sloppy anymore. He also mentions that the president was as badly damaged by an act of nature (Katrina) as by an act of war.

The next question gets at the title of this panel which is whether or not 9/11 and other events have justified a change in how we treat people. Willie Brown does think that 9/11 changed everything. He praises the President's response after 9/11 but says that after that he "made every bad choice he could make." He vehemently declares that what we are seeing now is "a profound demonstration of incompetence on the part of his surrounding persons."  He also says that Bush's problems have nothing to do with the Democrats. They have essentially been standing still but Bush has been running backwards because he has abused and misused the authority given to him. Brown also takes us through a brief history lesson noting that two of the best Presidents (at least according to a recent Rolling Stone article) misused their power.  Brown mentions that Abraham Lincoln, to whom he is indebted, misused and abused his power, so did FDR when he created interment camps for the Japanese. Quality leaders have made mistakes but Bush has screwed up beyond debate.

Susan Estrich questions what Bush needed to do and what Congress wouldn't have allowed. She asserts that Congress would have given Bush what he needed. Does it matter if Congress passes a law or if Bush does something without that law being passed? Her answer is an emphatic yes because in this country we do things by laws. Later Rollins agrees with her saying that this is a point that could easily have been made by a conservative.

Greenfield then asks Prager if there is anyway to set limits on power. This fires up Prager who says that if we think they are bums we should throw the bums out. He believes that the two sides of the equation look at the situation markedly differently. Are we fighting a war or individual acts of terrorism. He says the conservatives (and Joe Lieberman) know we are fighting a war. The audience snickers and Prager points out that even Democrats laugh at Lieberman. Prager also feels that "the president is quite a moderate man" and that he took offense to Brown's Bush bashing. He feels that it is a ridiculous issue that the president is being hamstrung on wiretaps.

Ed Rollins mentions the midterm elections and that we are may be in for a midterm flip with a shift of power being likely. He hopes that the government can go forward with bipartisan support. As to the question of whether or not we are in a war, he mentions that he a conversation that he recently had with a Republican senator about whether or not this is World War IV and if it is why is no one acting like we are in a war. Where is the mobilization of spirit and of resources? If this is a new kind of war what are we protecting  and are we fighting to win?

The person planning the music for these event is quite witty, the outro music is "Somebody's Watching Me" by Rockwell.

If you've read this far, I can only encourage you to watch the video. I haven't captured all the zinging energy between these experienced combatants. The question gets asked often enough if the Republicans and Democrats inhabit separate universes. These people may have been on the same stage but they are definitely worlds apart.